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[00:00:00] Peter Waggoner, Host: Welcome back in to Good Grief, of course, with Michael O'Connell. I'm Pete Wagner. And we're gonna talk about Grief Grave and the permission to heal in this podcast.

[00:00:09] Peter Waggoner, Host: And Michael, This is a topic we've weaved in and out of on other podcasts, and we're going direct at this one. First of all, how are you. Oh, good. Thanks. It's good to see you buddy. Thank you. It's always good to see you. You've got a kryptonite phrase. It drives you crazy.

[00:00:21] Peter Waggoner, Host: What is it? 

[00:00:22] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I it's when somebody just says, ah, I just want to be cremated and throw me out in the back or throw me in the spreader. Geez. And it's not just because that's what we do. It's because it's just, it can be so hurtful. So it's my kryptonite because I see the damaging other side of it.

[00:00:37] Peter Waggoner, Host: So when you hear it, what's your initial reaction? What do you do? 

[00:00:40] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I get it. I do, I get it. Like if you were to say to me, Hey, it's your birthday next week, I'm, ah, it's just another 

[00:00:46] Peter Waggoner, Host: day. 

[00:00:46] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Yep. 

[00:00:47] Peter Waggoner, Host: So 

[00:00:47] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: we all have that tendency. 

[00:00:48] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: But when it's the last day, then I think we have to take pause and just realize it's not about us anymore.

[00:00:53] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: It's about the ones we're leaving behind. And I get it. It, can come from a place of humility. Or a place of [00:01:00] discomfort. And although it comes off maybe as a selfless request, it can really unintentionally just place a huge heavy emotional burden on the family because they're left torn Pete.

[00:01:08] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: On one aspect, they wanna honor their loved one's wishes. That's what they wanted. I just don't wanna, that's what they wanted. We just wanna, fulfill their wishes. But on the other hand. And to me, to a degree, almost more important is they want some sort of finality, right?

[00:01:23] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: They wanna gather to say goodbye. They wanna to be able to honor that life That was so important to 'em. And I have seen where spouses, adult children siblings, they carry, long-term regret and confusion because they didn't get that chance to say goodbye. Really it's not about making a fuss or.

[00:01:40] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Not about the burden, it's about making meaning.

[00:01:43] Peter Waggoner, Host: Do you think it, when you're looking at a casket opened at review or, closed during service or funeral, do you feel as though for some people it is easier to just compartmentalize that out when they don't have to see that and it's just they're at a function?

[00:01:58] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Absolutely. Outta [00:02:00] sight outta mind, yeah. If you don't see it, if you don't deal with it, it's not there, it's gonna go away. And the problem that I've obviously learned personally is that it sits there, man, it's doing pushups, and it is just waiting for the crack in the armor to come forward.

[00:02:13] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: And when you're down the years later, you don't look back and say, it's because of this. I didn't grieve properly. I didn't, no. People don't do that. They just think that it's everybody else that's being a pain in the keystone. 

[00:02:25] Peter Waggoner, Host: Why do you think people feel uncomfortable about being remembered or honored after their death?

[00:02:30] Peter Waggoner, Host: It's that humble thing that you were talking about a moment ago, isn't it? 

[00:02:32] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I do feel some generally just don't wanna be the center of attention. Yeah. I get that. But for others, and I think probably the majority of others, is it gets way down to, remember when we had Jill on and we talked about attachment wounds.

[00:02:46] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I think it, it delves into that a little bit and we struggle with our self-worth. We might not believe that we're important enough to be remembered or celebrated right now. We struggle with that. And it's, again, it's not about being a burden. I [00:03:00] always say it's the death is the burden, but I think some people think if they keep it simpler and they keep it easier, it'll be much better for their family.

[00:03:07] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: But again, that keep it simple can unintentionally dismiss their needs at the time. Grief just doesn't disappear 'cause you, you skip a service, right? It just does not, and I think it even snowballs and it gets more strength as it goes on. But again, we don't put that tangible, intangible outcome of not grieving back to the reality, and the cultural piece too is, we just don't want to talk about it. Yeah. We, to make it go away. I did a prearrangement yesterday and the dad didn't want it. He didn't come because he didn't wanna talk about it, 

[00:03:35] Peter Waggoner, Host: was it for him? 

[00:03:36] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Yep. And I get it right, 

[00:03:38] Peter Waggoner, Host: right. 

[00:03:39] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I don't wanna talk about it, so it's just gonna go away.

[00:03:41] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: We've already discussed that mortality rate a hundred percent. So it's coming and wishing it away won't work. 

[00:03:46] Peter Waggoner, Host: How about the absence of a ceremony? And this is a thought for me. Are there, what do you do if someone comes here? Is there not a ceremony of some sort that you deal with?

[00:03:56] Peter Waggoner, Host: And what does the absence of that have on the [00:04:00] impact of the. The grieving families process? 

[00:04:02] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I say sadly that it's a growing percent that don't have anything. And we might hear that we're gonna do something down the road. We're gonna do this later. Did 

[00:04:12] Peter Waggoner, Host: cOVID make That 

[00:04:13] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: possible? Let's say, oh, we can wait eight months.

[00:04:16] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: COVID put lighter fluid on that, like none of there. Totally. And it hasn't self corrected. But I do feel and this isn't just 'cause I'm in the business, but I do feel that an absence of some sort of gathering, ceremony, celebration, life service, does leave a profound emotional void. And I feel it's stunt their healing growth.

[00:04:34] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I really do. And the funerals, memorials, gatherings, they're not just traditions they're rituals that help us structure some sort of structure and chaos. It gives that, we talked about that safe space with Jill before too. It gives that safe space for loved ones to express their sorrow, to share it with others, to share the stories.

[00:04:52] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: But really it, at the core of it goes back to Elizabeth Kubler Ross, and, which I'm not a fan of stages, but one of hers was to accept the reality [00:05:00] of the loss. I know that sounds crazy, but a lot of people are still waiting for their loved one to come home. Because they never process something. And so when you just say, just skip it, that comes back profoundly and it can be very damaging.

[00:05:11] Peter Waggoner, Host: What about families that you know that they wanna follow the wishes of a no funeral scenario, but they really wanna have their way to say goodbye and remember? Or as you said, earlier, celebrate Life, whatever it's termed like what happens there? Do they just overrule it and say, nah, we're doing this anyway.

[00:05:30] Peter Waggoner, Host: Some 

[00:05:30] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: do. I love that. Some do and it's like dad said, or mom said, and they're, they may be adults, but they're the little kids looking at mom and dad going, they said so. And so that has power and unfortunately. That just creates a huge emotional conflict and it never, doesn't stop lingering really.

[00:05:48] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I think it sits in Smolders forever. Because they're really placed at dis an I possible position to try to honor somebody's final request while denying themselves space to grieve properly. It's horrible. That tension, [00:06:00] leads to guilt, regret, and long-term strain on usually relationships.

[00:06:05] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: That's what it affects is when you don't grieve. You take it out on the ones you love the most. Some families suppress their grief, which can, it can come through later and manifest itself as depression or anxiety. Anxiety is worrying about something that hasn't happened, and, that's what we're talking about.

[00:06:20] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Something that hasn't happened and and others try to, maybe sneak a small gathering or do something quietly, but it never feels right because it doesn't have that full expression of that community shared morning. 

[00:06:32] Peter Waggoner, Host: Interesting that there are it, that whole topic, I'd never even really thought about if someone said no funeral, and then now you're forced into different factions of the family, as you're saying.

[00:06:42] Peter Waggoner, Host: You're a you're a child of the person who passed away no matter how old you are, you're still their child and you want, meet their wishes and then you start creating all sorts of chaos because others are saying, no, we need to do this. Like. Obviously if you go through that and you have unprocessed grief, how and where does that manifest in someone

[00:07:00] if they don't have the space as we're speaking of to mourn properly?

[00:07:03] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I wanna make something clear too, is that grief doesn't just go away because we had a service, right? I wish that were the case, but it's not the case. So I'm not here trying to tell anybody that everything goes away. A service is not an extra sketch. No. Yeah, I, that's a good way of putting it.

[00:07:18] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I, I had my brothers and I coordinated it, and I was part of every part of it, but yet I didn't process it because I jumped to the next one then. Didn't take a day off. And to answer your question though, how does it manifest itself? Again the, that unprocessed grief you talked about, it doesn't disappear.

[00:07:33] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: It always finds a way to resurface it always does. And so they can have just emotional numbness or disconnection. I think you mentioned, going to the casket. Do they disconnect? And for some they throw a lineup and they do disconnect from maybe from the ones they love. 

[00:07:48] Peter Waggoner, Host: Yeah. In 

[00:07:48] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: life they isolate.

[00:07:50] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: And so yeah, disconnection can happen. Isolation can happen. Irritability and anger, obviously it goes with that because you're angry, you're a, you're mad because your loved one died. [00:08:00] And now you're caught in this emotional turmoil that you can't have a service. I love my dad. I love my mom.

[00:08:06] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I can't have a service. People are asking me about the service and all these different things. And now you're getting angry. And so that's obvious. And with emotional symptoms does come physical symptoms, fatigue, headaches, chronic stress. we talked about the anxiety and depression.

[00:08:23] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: All those come with. And then you can also have complicated grief. And a complicated grief is a bigger thing that we won't delve into too. But it, you have your, just your normal a, B, c grief if you will, right? Complicated means. There's other things, like for me it was a homicide, right? But complicated could also be that at the same time you're going through a marital issue or your parents were getting divorced at the time, one of 'em died, or all these different things that complicate the death.

[00:08:49] Peter Waggoner, Host: There's a standard death, but there's other things around it. It's unexpected. It's like you said, a homicide. It could be, like you said, divorce, could be family infighting, could be anything. 

[00:08:58] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: And that's why I always say that, oh, [00:09:00] chemistry equation, we've talked about that there's A, B, C, and D by themselves.

[00:09:03] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: We can quantify 'em and identify 'em, but when you put 'em all together, you got a big pile of crap. And that's e. And that's life. And so when you throw on some of these things, that's why some people will lose their mind when they can't find their keys or their cell phone and they just, all of a sudden, their reaction to that is way farther than it, and it needed to be because of all these other things that are chipping away at 'em.

[00:09:24] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: And the biggest thing that I also see too, is that when you don't process your feelings. Be it grief, be it relationship, whatever it may be. Now, substance abuse or other unhealthy coping skills, like what I call self-soothing. You can start to binge watch tv. You can eat.

[00:09:39] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Yep. You can use substance abuse, you can use the internet. You can use all these different things as a way to divert your feelings of feeling that discomfort in dealing with it. But the problem is it's sitting there waiting. And then the other problem is that, yeah, sure you can have that, bourbon and coke and then you think it's not strong enough, so just cut the coke out and then that's not strong enough.

[00:09:59] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: So you [00:10:00] just say, cut the ice out, and then you're just drinking shred of the bottle, right? That's what happens. It's accumulative. It doesn't just stop. And as I mentioned, the, when you put all those together, it shows up as depression and anxiety. And if anybody has anxiety that's listening to this, they understand it.

[00:10:13] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: It's horrible, it's debilitating. It just drives the bus. 

[00:10:16] Peter Waggoner, Host: There's an article that says quote, when we don't feel worthy, we push others away. How do people learn to understand that they do matter and they are worthy? It's easier said than done, I assume. 

[00:10:26] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Oh, heck yeah. That's really hard because usually we don't wanna talk about it, so we wait till the last minute.

[00:10:31] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: And when someone's on their hospital bed and a you haven't been able to find a safe space to talk to 'em about it, you're probably not gonna bring it up then. But we all want to feel validated, affirmed. Loved and cared for, period. Amen. So we have to remind them that their presence, whether it be small every day has shaped their lives that they mattered, that the relationship they had with them, the memories they had with them, the shared laughter and the challenges.

[00:10:57] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Pete too, right? Those come along with it too. [00:11:00] You're grieving that loved one. But to a certain degree, you're also grieving maybe what should have been. 

[00:11:04] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: There's, where people get caught in the middle is, people going through a divorce and some one of 'em dies and they're just struggling.

[00:11:10] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: And you think they didn't love 'em anyway. They were divorcing 'em. They loved the person. They maybe didn't like the behavior, so they're caught in the middle of this back and forth. And so even with challenges, we just have to, we have to affirm those presence that all of that matters. And just having talks.

[00:11:25] Peter Waggoner, Host: Yeah. 

[00:11:25] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: People sometimes don't even realize the impact they have on others.

[00:11:28] Peter Waggoner, Host: It is. You think 

[00:11:29] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: back to your parents when you were a little gaffer and some of the things they did that you remember, they're probably thinking What? 

[00:11:34] Peter Waggoner, Host: Yeah. 

[00:11:35] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: You remember that? 

[00:11:36] Peter Waggoner, Host: Yeah. How could you? 

[00:11:36] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Yeah. How could you even remember that?

[00:11:38] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I don't remember that. It's because it meant a lot to you at the time. And those are the things we grieve too. We don't grieve a parent that, or a loved one that's sitting in a hospital bed dying. No we grieve the what was the good times, we go back to those. So having those conversations, those opportunities to talk about their impact, their legacy, and just to acknowledge that they [00:12:00] mattered in their life and just help them see, they at times were a bright light in their dark days, 

[00:12:04] Peter Waggoner, Host: how about reframing the purpose of the funeral 

[00:12:06] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: that. Is what I love to do because I'll have somebody come in, whether they're prearranging and say, I'm not doing this. Oh, you're not. Okay. And then I'll ask 'em this way. I'll say okay, sure. All right, so you don't want any of that.

[00:12:18] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: No one's gonna see it, right? Oh no. I don't like that stuff. I said, okay I can see that. And then I'll flip it on 'em, and I'll say, by that I'll know the names of the family and I'll say. If something happened to Amanda, your granddaughter, you get a phone call, she's died and they're gonna cremate her and not have anything, would you, would that sit okay with you?

[00:12:35] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Would you wanna see her? Oh, hell yeah, of course. What do you, and then you can see 'em like, but that's 

[00:12:40] Peter Waggoner, Host: her. That's not me. 

[00:12:41] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: And then the tears will start to show up and I'll say I am, please help me understand this because I'm really confused then. Because you've been to how many funerals? Oh God, I don't know.

[00:12:48] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Hundreds. And that hasn't prepared you to understand the depth of a loss of a loved one. Now your grandkids, and they have probably have never even seen a dead body, right? Oh, I don't know. But you're just gonna take that away from me. [00:13:00] 'cause you know better, but you need it, but they don't need.

[00:13:02] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: You're just gonna let ' em fight for themselves, huh? Then I see the tears coming and then I hear the damn you. 

[00:13:07] Peter Waggoner, Host: Yeah. So real conversations though. 

[00:13:08] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Oh, yeah. And so I try to reframe that whole purpose of why we're here. And I will say this, I'll say, you know what, cremating, your body's the easiest part.

[00:13:17] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Logistically, that's the easiest part. How we create something that's gonna cause a connection and healing and gratitude for the life lived. That's what I'm aiming for. So I do try to switch their mind frame on that whole thing. 

[00:13:29] Peter Waggoner, Host: Do you ever have someone have their actual body at a funeral or a service and then have it cremated after?

[00:13:35] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Absolutely. 

[00:13:36] Peter Waggoner, Host: And that's a great, happy medium, isn't it? 

[00:13:38] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Yep. You have that way more than you'd think because you don't know, right? Yeah. You just go the funeral. Or for someone that, and I get this too, that says my neighbor that hasn't come over and seen me for six months doesn't need to see me. Okay. I get that.

[00:13:50] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I don't disagree with it either, but for your family to say goodbye and we can have what we call a private view where it's really simplified. Simple can be beautiful. I get that. And [00:14:00] yeah. We have the viewing and then cremation. Absolutely. Okay. 'cause we have our own crematory member.

[00:14:04] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Yeah. So we control it. 

[00:14:04] Peter Waggoner, Host: Makes sense. 

[00:14:05] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I have cremated people at midnight because that's what we needed to do. 

[00:14:08] Peter Waggoner, Host: We are talking about feeling worthy, we tend to push others away and how we can help people know they matter through these processes. And one of 'em is addressing shame and past regrets.

[00:14:19] Peter Waggoner, Host: That fits into this mix too. 

[00:14:20] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Sure it does. Because if you feel unworthy, it's because I've wronged you. I wasn't the perfect parent. I hear that so often. Whether somebody maybe had alcoholism in their past and. And fact, my mom said it, she said, growing up I felt so bad your dad and I were drinking and we just weren't paying attention.

[00:14:36] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: And so you hold onto that, right? And the difference between guilt and shame. Guilt is I did something bad. I feel bad about it. Shame is I did that and I'm a horrible person. No, God doesn't love me for nobody loves me. I'm just a horrible person. And so that is nothing you want to take to the grave.

[00:14:53] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I, I from experience I've had to deal with that personally and people think, oh, wait a second, you yeah. And [00:15:00] you have this unworthiness about you, and it stinks. It just is debilitating. So we wanna have those open discussions. And forgiveness is a great thing. Forgiveness is more about the person that's offering it than it is the one receiving it.

[00:15:12] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: It just is good to let that go. So yeah, that's huge. To address the shame, the elephant in the room. 

[00:15:18] Peter Waggoner, Host: How about normalizing discomfort with praise? 

[00:15:20] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Some people are just more humble or they're more private. Yeah. 

[00:15:22] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: It just acknowledge it. Like I said, simple can be beautiful. But we wanna allow others just to grieve and honor you.

[00:15:29] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Is a gift. It's not a burden, is that it's a beautiful thing to come together to celebrate your life. I've heard that. I would have to say probably 500 times. I don't wanna be a burden. Okay. And my dad said it. 

[00:15:41] Peter Waggoner, Host: Yeah. And he probably means it because he's used to being the leader.

[00:15:45] Peter Waggoner, Host: Sure. The alpha, if you will. And he doesn't wanna become a 

[00:15:48] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: problem. He doesn't want to cause pain. Correct. The pain is coming. You can't stop it. The burden is if you take those tools away from 'em to have a, something that's meaningful, that's healing so

[00:16:00] they can walk away from it in a healthy place.

[00:16:02] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: So the death 

[00:16:02] Peter Waggoner, Host: is the burden, essentially. 

[00:16:04] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Absolutely. 

[00:16:05] Peter Waggoner, Host: How can we give our loved ones permission to grief and have the remembrance in us and in their own way? How do we do that when we may want it one way, but then, there's really a way everybody's different. How do you do that 

[00:16:16] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: carefully?

[00:16:17] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Yeah. You gotta be careful 'cause if you're talking to the person. You don't want them to shut down, right? 'cause they'll shut down if you come at 'em too strong. You have to build that trust, first of all. And then just, again, reiterate that point. That the funeral, the gathering, the celebration life, that is not the burden.

[00:16:31] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: The death is the burden, the gathering you're gonna allow them to have as a gift. And that can be a beautiful thing. And so that gathering. And when you give 'em the gift of time to come together, the a space to do it, a safe space, and the permission for those people to come together to say goodbye, to honor your life and to begin the healing process is just paramount.

[00:16:49] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: So when someone dies, their family doesn't just all of a sudden stop needing 'em. And the funeral helps bridge that gap between the presence and the absence that they carry forward. And why many people [00:17:00] think, I just don't wanna cause trouble. I don't want to be a bother. But to skip a service, to skip a gathering, to skip a celebration of life, just so you know, does not remove the pain, does not take it away.

[00:17:12] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: It often makes it much more profound because it adds confusion. There's guilt in there, and there's unprocessed, unfinished grief. Your family will still mourn, guaranteed. And if you think that the calendar flips and you're all of a sudden forgotten and gone, that's a huge mistake. And the question is, will they have a healthy way to do it or will they be left wondering how to grieve in silence, in isolation?

[00:17:32] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: That's really what the question is, 

[00:17:34] Peter Waggoner, Host: right? And so 

[00:17:35] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: if you, to answer your question, if you really wanna make things easier for your family. If you love them, give them your blessing to gather, to remember, to cry, to laugh, and to feel proud of who you were in their life. The 

[00:17:48] Peter Waggoner, Host: best funeral day I was at, it's the same family, two brothers.

[00:17:53] Peter Waggoner, Host: They both passed very suddenly. And each one of 'em was the oldest in the family, had 11 kids, youngest in the family, [00:18:00] went to their funeral. Then what do we do after the Irish wake? Yep. And the first one I went to, I'm like is this is a weird, is this, but it was, I've never forgotten it.

[00:18:09] Peter Waggoner, Host: It was incredible. And I can guarantee you. He would've loved that was going on. So that was a totally different situation where the where it went from a, a very focused moment at the church into a very joyous situation outside of it. I don't know how often that happens. 

[00:18:26] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Is that rare?

[00:18:27] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Not enough. How about that? It was cool. Yeah, I've been part of those. I've partaken in those too. Stories are flying. And so I wanna make something also clear, Pete, that I am not in any fashion trying to say there's one size fits all.

[00:18:39] Peter Waggoner, Host: Yeah. 

[00:18:40] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: There's not. So I'm not saying you need a funeral with amazing, great. And how great they are. I am not saying that. Not one bit. I don't want those at mine. Not because they're not good songs. It's because it doesn't have meaning to me. 'cause I've heard him so many times. I one simple man at mine.

[00:18:53] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Love it. I want dust in the wind by Kansas. And so no one size does not fit all. So I wanna make sure I'm not trying to say [00:19:00] that I'm trying to promote something for for my personal reasons or professional reasons. No, I'm not saying that one bit. 

[00:19:05] Peter Waggoner, Host: Here's the money question right here.

[00:19:07] Peter Waggoner, Host: You ready? Yep. If someone listening to this podcast, and I know there is, has to be has said the words just cremate me. What would you invite them to consider today that may be different? 

[00:19:18] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Okay. Alright. What I would ask the person to reconsider the profound impact, their loss will feel on the family.

[00:19:25] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: And instead of saying, just cremate me, throw me up back, throw me in the spreader, throw me in the lake, the river, whatever it may be. Okay, here's what I'd like you to say, then when I'm gone, I want you to do what brings you peace. And if that's a service, a gathering, a toast, a hike in the woods, you do it.

[00:19:41] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: And I don't want you to hold back because of me, because it might make me uncomfortable to accept that this is your way and you need to have that way to say goodbye. And I would trust you. Choose what you would need. And you say it out loud. 

[00:19:53] Peter Waggoner, Host: Yeah. 

[00:19:53] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Giving permission is huge again I've seen them when they've said it the opposite way and the [00:20:00] profound sadness that I see.

[00:20:02] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: So I would say that again, just I trust you to grieve however you need. And it feels like the lifting the weight of obligation or replacing it with love, it really does. Too often people avoid ceremony because they want to spare their family the pain, but as I mentioned, the pain doesn't go away when we skip rituals or gatherings.

[00:20:19] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: It just pushes deeper. And so giving that permission, I feel is your final act of love. It tells 'em, you matter to me, your healing matters to me, and I always want you to be free to remember me in the way that helps your heart. Did that answer that question? Yeah, it 

[00:20:35] Peter Waggoner, Host: did really well. Okay. And I think 

[00:20:37] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I had to think about it.

[00:20:37] Peter Waggoner, Host: It was really good. And one thing that is a common theme that comes up as we wrap this up is a funeral memorial or celebration of life isn't about ego, it's about meaning is you've said in your notes. And I wanna make sure I said that in a, direct, because I think sometimes we always so much don't, we're always told to be humble.

[00:20:56] Peter Waggoner, Host: , Don't be bragging, that's just how we're raised. And that's [00:21:00] not what this is doing. 

[00:21:01] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: I heard it once said, and it was pretty, pretty cool to hear. It's people don't come to the visitations or funerals because someone died. They go there because somebody lived.

[00:21:09] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Oh wow. Because in the end, really 

[00:21:10] Peter Waggoner, Host: good. 

[00:21:11] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: Yeah. Because in the end, how we leave and say goodbye says a lot about how we lived and loved in life. 

[00:21:17] Mike O'Connell, O'Connell Family Funeral Homes: And so again, simple can be beautiful, but give them the tools, give them the freedom. Give them the love of being able to honor you the way they need to.

[00:21:26] Peter Waggoner, Host: Simple can be beautiful, like simple man. Yep. One of the best songs ever written. Yep. Really good stuff. Be sure to check everything out at O'Connell funeral homes.com this has been the Good Grief Podcast, Michael O'Connell. You're the man. I love cutting you loose on these topics. It's so fun to hear your wisdom and your insights.

[00:21:42] Peter Waggoner, Host: Thanks. You've done a lot. You've made a huge impact and you're very good at what you do, and I think nobody understands this whole realm better than you from what I've ever observed. And I know a few and it's very impressive. So thanks for always sharing your thoughts. It's great. Thanks for stepping in with me.

[00:21:57] Peter Waggoner, Host: It's a pleasure. Alright buddy. Chat later. Okay.