What happens after someone dies? Are the signs people experience after loss simply coincidence, or something deeper?

In this deeply emotional episode of The Good Grief Podcast, Mike O’Connell, Emma O’Connell, and Father Jerry Harris explore the mysterious moments that often follow grief: cardinals appearing at the perfect time, vivid dreams, unexplained peace, near-death experiences, and stories that leave families questioning whether their loved ones are somehow still near.

Recorded inside Immaculate Conception Catholic Church, this episode dives into faith, grief, hope, and the emotional connections that continue long after death. Father Jerry shares moving stories from nearly 47 years in ministry, while Mike reflects on personal experiences as a funeral director and paramedic that still give him goosebumps today.

Whether you believe in “God winks” or simply find comfort in signs and memories, this conversation offers reassurance that grief is deeply personal, faith can provide healing, and none of us are truly alone in loss.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS (TIMESTAMPS)

00:00:00 – Why people experience “God winks” after loss
00:02:30 – Father Jerry on signs from loved ones after death
00:04:20 – The importance of being open to spiritual connection
00:05:00 – A powerful nursing home story about final moments
00:07:30 – Discussion about psychics and mediums
00:08:30 – Mike shares a chilling story connected to his brother Dan
00:13:20 – Emma explains what “God winks” can look like
00:14:40 – The relentless cardinal story at Emma’s window
00:16:20 – Why funerals and faith matter in grief
00:18:10 – Near-death experiences and overwhelming peace
00:23:15 – Why we pray if God already knows the outcome
00:24:50 – Father Jerry on suffering, healing, and purpose
00:26:20 – “Life’s not fair, but God is.”
00:28:00 – Emma on carrying a loved one’s journey forward
00:30:20 – Advice for anyone struggling with grief or faith

TAKEAWAYS

• Grief often opens people to moments they cannot fully explain.
• “God winks” can appear differently for everyone.
• Faith can provide comfort, structure, and hope during loss.
• Loved ones continue to impact our lives long after death.
• Near-death experiences often leave people without fear.
• Healing does not mean forgetting someone.
• Community and support matter deeply after loss.
• You do not have to navigate grief alone.

MEMORABLE QUOTES

Father Jerry Harris

“I don’t think the veil between Earth and Heaven is that far.”

“Love just doesn’t end.”

“Life’s not fair, but God is.”

“God is always there. It’s us figuring that out.”

Mike O’Connell

“We all hear about the cardinal that flies by or the lights that flicker in the room.”

“Faith is believing in something you can’t see.”

“He shows up in people.”

“I’ve yelled at God and asked, ‘Where are you?’”

Emma O’Connell

“Meaning still matters.”

“Every journey is different, and that’s okay.”

“Holding our loved ones close brings comfort and value.”

“You’re not alone, whether you see those signs or long to see them.”

RESOURCES MENTIONED

• O’Connell Family Funeral Homes – Pre-Planning
  https://oconnellfuneralhomes.com/pre-planning/



• Jerry Harris on Facebook

Transcript

Disclaimer: This podcast is produced with the aim to provide accurate and insightful information. Please note that the transcripts are generated with the use of AI and edited, but may not reflect a 100% accurate representation of the original discussions. There might be minor discrepancies in the spoken content due to editing for clarity or brevity. We encourage listeners to refer to the original audio for the most faithful representation of the episode’s content.

[00:00:00] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Well, this episode will have people getting goosebumps because we're going to dive into those moments that make our heads shake, moments that take our breath away, moments that bring great emotions, and moments that bring us closer to our faith. We're going to dive into the moments when we experience the unknown after a loved one dies.

[00:00:18] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Today, we're talking about these moments that don't fit in a box, and they're ones that make you pause, the ones that make you whisper, "What was that all about?" I'm so intrigued by this topic, and I'm excited about it.

[00:00:32] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: To make matters more intense, we sit in Immaculate Conception Catholic Church, where over my shoulder the crucifix hangs with Jesus Christ for all to see and feel, and with other church icons like the Virgin Mary watching on and over our shoulders. This one is going to be good. First, how did this episode come to your mind, and, and what is your thought about doing it, Father Gerry Harris?

[00:00:52] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: And Mike, we... excited. Emma, you're here as well to discuss all of this. But after answering that question, I think it's, uh, better to introduce our [00:01:00] special guest to have with us here first. How did you come about this topic, Mike? 

[00:01:03] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Well, over my career, I've had some pretty unusual things happen that you just can't explain or replicate.

[00:01:09] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: We all hear about the cardinal that flies by or the eagle that goes overhead or lights that flicker in the room, and we think, "Oh, my gosh, they're here." But there's more stories that make those look pale in comparison, and so I wanna delve into those. Yes, we have a special guest here, someone who's very special to me.

[00:01:29] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: He's my padre. We've been in ministry many years together, and more importantly, he's my friend. So Father Gerry Harris, would you please introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about you? 

[00:01:41] Father Jerry: Okay. I've been ordained it'll be 47 years coming up on March 4th. I had a first career. I was a register- registered nurse in, in intensive care and then felt the call to ministry.

[00:01:53] Father Jerry: So I've been serving the churches around the Diocese of Superior, and during that time, I've helped with a lot of different [00:02:00] situations, a lot of deaths And, what you just described, Mike, in terms of signs from the other side, I've really experienced that. Plus, I think most importantly, the whole grieving and funeral process makes a real big difference.

[00:02:14] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Can I clarify something? 

[00:02:15] Father Jerry: Yeah. 

[00:02:16] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: You said you've been in the ministry 47 years? 

[00:02:19] Father Jerry: 47. 

[00:02:19] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Was that BC 

[00:02:21] Father Jerry: or AD? AD. 

[00:02:23] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Okay. I just wanted... Hey, I just wanted to check. You know, yeah, we go way back- Yeah ... with my brother Dan, and of course my dad, and better throw Mom in there. The old saying goes, "You could write a book. We could write a book."

[00:02:33] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Crazy stuff happens. I personally call those chicken noodles for the soup, and I'm guessing, you would call those God winks. Yeah. And I call them God winks, too. Mm-hmm. And we have a couple questions for you. Do you think those unexplained experiences that we have with our loved ones after they die are coincidence, or do you feel they're a bigger picture about the spiritual of God?

[00:02:55] Father Jerry: I really think, what happens at those moments, that they're giving [00:03:00] us a sign that they're okay. And I know in my family, there were instances where I just felt their presence and things like that, and one of the things I like to say to my grandmother and my mother when they passed, and I was feeling what was going on, my grandmother was knocking things off the shelf.

[00:03:17] Father Jerry: I mean, that's her, getting attention. I said, "We're gonna be fine. Go on." Having said that, I think they are watching us. I don't think the veil between Earth and Heaven is that far, where we can sense their love and their presence. It just doesn't end at death, and it's... at some point we're gonna be reunited, and we're gonna enjoy all those friendships again.

[00:03:39] Father Jerry: Yeah. 

[00:03:40] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: So to spin off that question, Father, do you think that God would allow our loved ones to kinda try and communicate with us or give us those signs? 

[00:03:50] Father Jerry: Yeah, I think God allows that. I don't wanna, you know, be a psychic medium or anything like that here, but, but I just think, uh, more importantly, if you love somebody your whole [00:04:00] life and all of a sudden they're gone, that love just doesn't end.

[00:04:03] Father Jerry: I mean, it continues on. Yeah. And so we're gonna feel them, and then one day... That gives us the hope of the resurrection, that one day we will see them again, enjoy their friendship. 

[00:04:12] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Yeah. 

[00:04:13] Father Jerry: So I think it's, God allows that. 

[00:04:16] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Yeah. 

[00:04:16] Father Jerry: Yeah. 

[00:04:16] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: How much does someone need to be willing to listen and to hear and to be receptive to that communication?

[00:04:25] Father Jerry: They'd really have to be open. One of the stories that I thought about for today is a true story of a man that I had gotten to know in a nursing home in River Falls, and what happened is he had had a stroke which left him aphasic. He couldn't talk. And I knew him, and we'd say hi.

[00:04:41] Father Jerry: He didn't come to church services, but he was tooling around his wheelchair, and we always waved to each other, and he smiled and stuff like that. Long story short, get a call from his daughter. He was actively dying, and she was Catholic and wanted last rites. Planned. I went up to the nursing home, walked in his room.

[00:04:58] Father Jerry: I knew it [00:05:00] wasn't gonna be long. The daughter pulled me aside and says, "My dad said he didn't believe in God." The mother was Catholic, he was not. He wasn't anything. And when after the stroke and after he was starting to his death process, she asked Dad, "Dad, do you really believe there's no God?" Because he couldn't talk, he gave kind of a I don't know look in his eyes.

[00:05:24] Father Jerry: So anyway, with that, I went back in and I looked at him, and he was pretty g- pretty close, and I looked down right face to face, and I said, I said, "You don't have long for this world, but I want you to know there's not a moment more than God loves you than right now, and when this life is done, there's gonna be a place for you."

[00:05:43] Father Jerry: And so I gave him last rites, which is a prayer service assuring him of God's mercy and love, okay? I step back 'cause it's not my family. The family goes there. Literally 10 minutes later, all of a sudden his eyes open. [00:06:00] He looks up into the corner of the room. He was seeing something, and I just simply say, "Just go to that light.

[00:06:06] Father Jerry: Go to that person." And he was gone. He was gone. So there is something about that, about that person that just, just the flicker of faith makes a big, big difference. 

[00:06:18] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: I did a funeral arrangement for an individual that his brother, sister, and a brother-in-law were at the funeral. He's a priest, and he said, "30 years ago, I had a come to Jesus moment."

[00:06:31] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: And I said, "Really? What happened?" And he said that he had a cardiac arrest and had some, I don't know what you'd call them, just God speaking to him. And he said, "I was... I made some really poor decisions. I was in drugs. I was really making some bad decisions in life." And he said, "I, I had a cardiac arrest, and I decided to take my life to God."

[00:06:56] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: And as he was talking, I was sitting back and thinking, [00:07:00] and I said, "Yeah, you asked people to put your hands on your head, didn't you?" He goes, "Yeah." "And you were at the third aisle at the grocery store." And he looked at me real pale, and he goes, "How do you know that?" I said, "Quite honestly, I was the paramedic that brought you back."

[00:07:15] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: And that was 30 years ago. It brought us back together, but he had that God moment, and it was just another God moment, a God wink, that we're all staring at each other almost like a previous life we came together. That was one of my special moments as a paramedic. Pretty cool. 

[00:07:28] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Very cool. And then to take it to the next step, you referred to psychics a moment ago, Father.

[00:07:35] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: We see the commercials. 

[00:07:36] Father Jerry: Yep. 

[00:07:37] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: W- where are you at? Can psychics speak to the dead and communicate- 

[00:07:40] Father Jerry: I- ... as 

[00:07:41] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: a medium? I'm 

[00:07:41] Father Jerry: not even gonna go there. I just For some people, I see them advertised. I've watched a couple of them, and some people feel at peace with that. That's fine, but church doesn't really...

[00:07:55] Father Jerry: Not into that. I think if you looked at the lives of the saints, we have-- If you [00:08:00] look at some of the saints, they have visions and stuff like that, but that's not a psychic thing. So it is what it is. Yeah. 

[00:08:07] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: I think some of those are quacks. I mean, they prey on the vulnerable. They ask leading questions.

[00:08:14] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: People don't realize it, but they interject subliminally part of a question that you answer, and they play off it, and then you think, "How do they know that?" 

[00:08:23] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Mm-hmm. Well, of course it fits, right? Of course. 

[00:08:25] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Yeah. Of course. But I have a story on that, and I really wanna see what Father thinks of it. After Dan was killed, it took us three years to figure out who did it.

[00:08:35] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: There was a lady in northern Minnesota that kept calling the police department, and she says, "Dan keeps coming to me in my dreams. I need to get this off my chest. I don't want that burden on me." She didn't drive, and quite honestly, the police department investigators at that time didn't think she was legitimate, and they even told her, "I think you're here for the $100,000 reward money."[00:09:00] 

[00:09:00] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: And so 

[00:09:00] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: she was absorbing a lot of their time, so they finally figured "She's gonna keep bugging us. Let's get her in here so we can kinda shut her up." 

[00:09:08] Father Jerry: Check it off- 

[00:09:09] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Check off a box ... 

[00:09:10] Father Jerry: their boxes, yep. 

[00:09:11] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: So she goes to the police department, and she looked at the one detective and goes, "You don't believe me at all, do you?"

[00:09:17] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: And he said, "Quite honestly, ma'am, no, I don't." And hanging on the wall was the police department photo, and she picked out a couple, and she told them information about those policemen. And the one detective goes, "Okay, please sit down," because he was like, "I don't know how you'd know 

[00:09:34] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: this." Is this a random person?

[00:09:35] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Yep. At the time, there wasn't a whole lot of direction as to, to why, and so she was able to talk about the perpetrator, not as a specific this is who it is, in generality. At the time, we didn't know this person wears a uniform, all these different things. And the vehicle, something wrong with the vehicle that makes a certain sound, and so they're just kinda like, "Yeah, [00:10:00] yeah, okay, okay."

[00:10:01] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Well, we look back now, and she was spot on. The weird part is they said, "Well, let's bring her to the funeral home." So they bring her to the funeral home, and again, they're kind of a little eeried by her because she's saying things that they just quite honestly don't know how she could answer because she doesn't know the answers and she didn't know them.

[00:10:19] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: We bring her into the room. I was there. Bring her into the room, and again, this wasn't public knowledge. And she put the whole layout of that room. We had changed things up. She pointed to where Dan was. She pointed to where James was. And by that time we're all kinda getting big time goosebumps because that wasn't public knowledge.

[00:10:41] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: How did she know that? And so then she took that to another level as she's talking about things, and she all of a sudden looks and she, she starts shaking and she starts crying and she goes, "He's standing right here. Dan is right here amongst us." You know, we're taken back, especially me. I'm like, "You gotta be kidding me."[00:11:00] 

[00:11:00] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: And one of the detectives, it freaked him out so much he said a, a certain word and he bailed. Seriously? He goes, "I- screw this." Where were you at? He said a few 

[00:11:08] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: words. 

[00:11:08] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Were you in denial- I was standing 

[00:11:09] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: in the room ... or were you believing 

[00:11:10] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: that? I was frozen then. 

[00:11:11] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Yeah. 

[00:11:12] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: And so it's just bizarre. She knew things about the scene, and then she says he's here.

[00:11:18] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: And so it just freaked us out. Like I said, the one detective bailed because he believed it, and I was just frozen in fear. So I, I don't know. Some people have that, I don't wanna call it a gift. They'll call it a burden. 

[00:11:31] Father Jerry: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:11:32] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: But what... How do you take that? 

[00:11:34] Father Jerry: It is what it is. I think in certain instances that it's valid as long as it's for something like that.

[00:11:39] Father Jerry: She went- she's- she didn't expect anything in return. 

[00:11:42] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: She didn't want anything in return. That's right. She said, "Y- I don't want the money." 

[00:11:45] Father Jerry: Yeah. So I think it is what it is. If, if it brings closure, if it brings a situation like that to an end, then it's can be of God. Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:58] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: What, what I always wonder too is [00:12:00] the repent thief.

[00:12:01] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: He says, "Today you will be with me in paradise," not after you go through a, a vetting, , a process- Yeah ... that you need to go through. So what I wonder is some people say they have visions. Others can't remember their voice. I always just wonder, are they amongst us? If they are, how long? You know, back in the day, we don't have to get in this conversation, but there was purgatory, and so you had to atone to your sins to get in, but I don't know.

[00:12:28] Father Jerry: Yeah. Well, there still is purgatory, but it's... You gotta... That can be a, an hour-long discussion in itself. Right. But you gotta remember one thing, time is in this world. One day in the Lord's is like 1,000. So you gotta remember there are some people that somehow they just totally embrace God's love after they die.

[00:12:48] Father Jerry: I believe most do. And so I think, a lot of times little kids will talk about, "Oh, yeah, Gr- Grandma died." "Oh, yeah, Grandma was here last night." Something like that. That could just be a whole topic for [00:13:00] a long discussion. 

[00:13:01] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Yeah. 

[00:13:01] Father Jerry: But the thing of it is it's- If it brings peace and it's not evil- Yeah

[00:13:05] Father Jerry: that's fine. 

[00:13:06] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: It's like a placebo, right? Somebody just gives you a water pill and you think it's something and it helps you, then that's great. 

[00:13:13] Father Jerry: I think there's a lot to it, so. 

[00:13:15] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Yeah. 

[00:13:16] Father Jerry: Yeah. 

[00:13:16] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: I, and I think it is important to make a disclaimer that we're not trying to test science and- Yeah ... prove anything to anybody.

[00:13:23] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: I think everybody's individual experiences are theirs, and some are very vocal- Yeah ... some are more quiet- Yeah ... and hold that to their heart. Without a doubt, there's gonna be some people that sit on the edge of their seats when they listen to this, and just when they hear stories like this and totally believe it.

[00:13:41] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: Others might think, "You know, that's nonsense," and they'll, they'll never really feel maybe that connection is what- Yeah ... I would kinda call it. Yeah. But for those, who may have not heard of god winks, that would be something that they can't explain. Yeah. Unexpected sign, unexplainable timing, dreams that feel vivid [00:14:00] or comforting, objects appearing at meaningful times.

[00:14:03] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: I had some of those myself with a recent loss. I had to drive a pretty far distance, , a very short time after I had a loss in my life, and every time I stopped at the gas station, there was a butterfly, and now I have a butterfly tattoo. Yeah. Yeah. You know? So that's kinda some of those things that I think I would say would be, called a god wink.

[00:14:27] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: It's kinda just up to people. It's, it's definitely your choice to believe what you believe. 

[00:14:33] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: You've heard the old, "Well, there's a cardinal. Uh-oh, they're here," right? Right? Okay. So my mom loved birds, especially cardinals. I think a lot of people do. So when we'd see a cardinal My wife would say, "Oh, oh, there's Grandma Janet," or, "There's Janet."

[00:14:48] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: And the kids did, too. So Emma started having a visitor trying to get into her bedroom through her window 

[00:14:57] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: Constantly. 

[00:14:58] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: A cardinal [00:15:00] 

[00:15:00] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: Mm-hmm. 

[00:15:00] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: The problem is it was relentless, and it didn't stop. 

[00:15:04] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: At 5:30 in the morning. 

[00:15:06] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Yeah. Oh, yes, yeah. 

[00:15:07] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Of course, that's when they're all waking up. 

[00:15:09] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Through, through night. 

[00:15:09] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: Uh-huh.

[00:15:10] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: And it would constantly fly in the window, and it would peck at the window all day. Emma would say, "What does she want? What does she want? Why is she trying to come in here? Is she trying to tell us something, or is she... What does she want?" But that didn't happen for a day or two. It was months, weeks. 

[00:15:29] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: Yeah.

[00:15:29] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: It was- It was- ... like on- Like all 

[00:15:30] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: summer ... 

[00:15:31] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: going. And you do all the tricks of put something in your window. I tried everything, and it just kept coming to the window. 

[00:15:39] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Emma goes from, "What is she trying to tell us? What does she want? What, what bigger picture is this?" To, "She needs to be shot." 

[00:15:46] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: I mean, I wouldn't say that, but- And 

[00:15:48] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: so she's 

[00:15:48] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: like, "

[00:15:48] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Grandma Janet needs to be shot."

[00:15:49] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Well, it's really, it's really funny, though, that you brought that up because I thought of that. And Father, my perspective from that was every spring I see a [00:16:00] cardinal and a blue jay. To me, I don't know what that means. I just say, "Oh, there's Mom and Dad." You know? Yeah. And I know they're doing their thing, and it, it's just a simple little reminder.

[00:16:10] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: I use it as that. I don't know if it means anything, but that's what I do. 

[00:16:13] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: We live by love. Mm-hmm. And the cardinal didn't get shot. 

[00:16:17] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Okay. Well, that's good to know. I assume so. But, but what is your take on that, those things? Are those, like, tools that we use to accept communication and communicate? 

[00:16:27] Father Jerry: My o- o- overall arching thing on this is, is that it only happens if you have faith.

[00:16:33] Father Jerry: That's why I think it's so important to have a funeral, and especially for my Christian tradition, is that we rely on that faith. We talk about the practice of our faith. We practice our faith by prayer, works, charity every single day for moments that when it has its full impact, when we go through difficult times, illnesses and stuff like that, we're not crushed and [00:17:00] defeated.

[00:17:00] Father Jerry: And then when we have loved ones that die, then what happens is it gets it through us. Like for example, I've had funerals where the family was absolutely devastated and lost because of, especially the tragedy. . And what happened is I say to them, "We will walk you through this funeral process."

[00:17:19] Father Jerry: And so for Christians or Catholics, we go through the funeral service, the usually a funeral mass. And what happens is we lead them through the grief We give them, we remind them that our hope is ultimately with God. And for the most part, after the funeral, they'll say, "I'm so glad we did this. I know my loved one is safe."

[00:17:43] Father Jerry: You see, that is relying on your faith. And so if some people say and get comfort, "I see the blue jay, I see the - cardinal, the butterfly. I've seen all that stuff," or dimes or whatever, what happens is . it gives them peace. It all points [00:18:00] to the reality that God has called their loved ones home, they're safe, and it's a reminder that someday we're gonna see them again.

[00:18:08] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Cool. All right. Got another story. I feel like I'm hijacking. Yeah. Like I said, I could write a book. So this one, yeah, gives me goosebumps too when, when I even tell it. So when I was a paramedic, I did a, what's called a ride-along with Hudson Police, with a buddy of mine. I was on call, so I just would jump in and we'd ride around and chat.

[00:18:28] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: And so we were dispatched to one choking, and when we arrived to my suspicion, it was a cardiac arrest. A lot of people think they're choking, but they just gasp and they go down, and so people think they're choking. So we started CPR. Ambulance came. She was taken to the hospital, and all of our resuscitation efforts failed.

[00:18:47] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: She died. They subsequently used our funeral home, and when the family came in to make arrangements, they were very sad. And they said, "We need to let you know that our dad is in, cardiac, [00:19:00] intensive care unit in the cities. He's extremely bad, and he can't handle , this news. So we're not gonna tell him.

[00:19:07] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: We're gonna have to put the funeral on hold just because we gotta be with Dad." Their plates were full. That night he had a cardiac arrest. I mean, again, all this stuff going at him. They revived him, and so they got together as a family and they said, "Dad has a right to know what happened to Mom, regardless of what happens."

[00:19:25] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: That's his wife of 40 years. They got the courage up to talk to him, and a lot of emotion there. And so they went up and said, "Dad, we, we need to tell you we have some bad news." And he looked at them and he said, "I, I know." And they said, "No, no, Dad, this is... It's not about you, it's about, um, something else." And he's like, "I know."

[00:19:43] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: And they're like, "Well, okay, Dad, um, we need to tell you, uh, something." And he goes, "I know about Mom." They went back and they were just filled with emotion. And he said, " we just want you to know that the kids are gonna be okay, that we're okay, and that it will [00:20:00] be just fine." They were overwhelmed, A, that he knew, and at the time they didn't pick up on the word we.

[00:20:07] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: We, yeah. 

[00:20:08] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: We will be fine. Ooh. 

[00:20:09] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

[00:20:11] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Later, they found out that night he cardiac arrested and died. And so we had a funeral together 

[00:20:18] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Sounds like a movie story in its own little way. Yeah. 

[00:20:21] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: How did he know? How did he know? 

[00:20:23] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: I know. 

[00:20:23] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: How did he know we are gonna be okay? Like he had a premonition that he wasn't gonna make it.

[00:20:29] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: He 

[00:20:29] Father Jerry: did. 

[00:20:30] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: He had a prophecy. 

[00:20:31] Father Jerry: I've had people that have had the near-death experiences that come back, and they talk about when they die, going to the light, but they're... They feel this overwhelming sense of God's love embracing them. And they said, and what they see as the most beautiful thing in the world, and they often say, "I didn't wanna come back."

[00:20:53] Father Jerry: Yeah. But then- Mm-hmm ... they were told, "It's not your time. Go back." But they continued to live [00:21:00] their life not with fear, but with hope, you know? Yeah. 

[00:21:03] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Do you think when that happens with people, wouldn't it be great if we could hear more about that? It seems like it's not talked about much. 

[00:21:11] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Yeah. 

[00:21:12] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: They kinda keep it to themselves is what I've...

[00:21:14] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Maybe I'm wrong, but I'd love to hear more. 

[00:21:16] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Yeah. 

[00:21:16] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: I guess. Just my curiosity. 

[00:21:18] Father Jerry: Yeah. 

[00:21:19] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: I agree with that 100%. Faith is believing in something you can't see, and I think a lot of us want that, "Give me just a tidbit of information that shows that I am on the right track." 

[00:21:32] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Well, you can't touch it physically, but you can feel it.

[00:21:34] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's the trickiest part. 

[00:21:36] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Yeah. 

[00:21:37] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Yeah. 

[00:21:37] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: I think feeling it is almost more tangible than being able to touch it, right? Because you just have this overwhelming feeling, and where did that come from? 

[00:21:47] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Another one I hear a lot is people will have that near-death experience, and when you have that, you're clinically dead.

[00:21:55] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Mm-hmm. Father knows that, being the, his background. And so you're out. [00:22:00] You're, you're clinically dead. And I've had a, a lot of people, because of my past too, and we have a friend, Jim- Mm ... who had a massive stroke, and he is looking down at his resuscitation- 

[00:22:16] Father Jerry: His 

[00:22:16] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Yeah. 

[00:22:16] Father Jerry: Yeah ... 

[00:22:17] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: of everybody working, and he's watching it like, oh my gosh.

[00:22:20] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: He said it was like a, a theatrical, that they're just frantically trying to bring him back, and he says his dad comes to him and he says, "It's not time." 

[00:22:29] Father Jerry: Seriously? 

[00:22:31] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:31] Father Jerry: Yeah. 

[00:22:31] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Now, Jim is not a theatrical embellisher. There wasn't any part of him that didn't believe that 'cause it was still fresh in his mind.

[00:22:42] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: And so I hear that one a lot, that they're watching the resuscitation efforts and somebody, whether it's a dad or a mom or God, coming and saying, "We're not ready. You're not ready. You need to go back." And like you said earlier, everybody that senses that [00:23:00] warmth and that light and that overwhelming feeling don't wanna go back.

[00:23:04] Father Jerry: Yeah. 

[00:23:04] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: I don't think one person said, "Oh, don't bring me back there." They're like, "No, I wanna go-" I wanna go behind door number two, so I think those are, those are great stories. Okay, Father, I, I'm gonna put you on the spot here. 

[00:23:16] Father Jerry: Surprise. 

[00:23:18] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Jeremiah reads, "Before I formed you, I knew you in the womb."

[00:23:23] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: God knows our every thought, our every action before we know it, so why do we pray? Why do we pray for outcomes? Hmm. Why do we pray for God to help us when if He already knows what's gonna happen, why are we praying? 

[00:23:36] Father Jerry: Well, God knows all the outcomes, not just one outcome. Our ultimate outcome, we're gonna be with God, but part of why we pray is so that we can drink in, accept God's love for us, and so that's always different.

[00:23:52] Father Jerry: Been with people, we've prayed for cancer or whatever, and they've been healed, and we say, "Thank God for that." And so I've [00:24:00] been with people and they've had cancer. We've prayed for healing, and the person was healed. They died. They went to God. So that's a healing, but it only makes sense through the eyes of faith.

[00:24:10] Father Jerry: You know, for example, my father died when I was four and a half years old, and so, you know, I would've loved to have a dad growing up and miss him to this day. But redemption is taking a very painful situation to bring the good out of it. I wouldn't be the priest I am today had I not suffered the loss when I was four and a half, and stayed in contact with God, and had God heal those wounds so that I could go on, and I would like to believe I'm effective with people in different grief situations because of that.

[00:24:47] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: So you went towards the pain. You went towards the discomfort. 

[00:24:50] Father Jerry: Yeah. 

[00:24:51] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Yeah. And you didn't let it rule you and feel s- I, I say feel sorry for yourself. 

[00:24:58] Father Jerry: Yeah. 

[00:24:59] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: How would [00:25:00] you answer to the people that say, " why would God do this to me?" I mean, you think of the worst things in the world. Why would God do... A, a loving God would never do that to me.

[00:25:09] Father Jerry: No. 

[00:25:10] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: It's 

[00:25:10] Father Jerry: It has nothing to do with God. A lot of times they say, "Well, God caused this." No, that doesn't make sense. That's... If God caused it, that's called an abuse of God. God gives us free will, and so what happened with my dad's death, it was he made a choice that day, and it was not a good choice.

[00:25:27] Father Jerry: It wasn't his fault. It was an accident, but that was a choice that he made that day. If you love somebody, you can't control 'em, 'cause if you're trying to control 'em, that's not love. That's evil. But if you love somebody, you allow them to be the person they're meant to be, and that means they're gonna make mistakes they're gonna have some rewards, some good stuff, but it's all done with love.

[00:25:51] Father Jerry: And God loves us enough to say, "Okay, I love you. I'm here for you, but enjoy this world, figure it out, and be compassionate to one another." 

[00:25:59] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: [00:26:00] So maybe that one person's listening that feels God wasn't fair or life's not fair, or, yeah, I was dealt a bad hand and life sucks. How would you... if they're listening and you could give them some advice, something tangible that they can grab onto to move past that pain, what would it be?

[00:26:20] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: You 

[00:26:20] Father Jerry: should've been here a couple weeks ago, 'cause I hit, in my homily, I said, "I have a major announcement. People, life's not fair, but God is." So I would say to them, "No matter what happens, trust God. God will get you through it." One of my big things is I've gone through Grief Share at the f- former parish I had, and there's grief...

[00:26:41] Father Jerry: You've done grief workshops. Many funeral homes do that. These grief supports groups. And what you do is you come together and talk. And like with Grief Share, what happens, it's Christian-based, and you talk about the pain, you talk about the loss, but then you talk about the moments that get you through it, and that's God, that [00:27:00] no matter what happens.

[00:27:00] Father Jerry: And somehow when those people go through the course, when I went through my own grief stuff, you come out the other side and you have hope that we gotta continue living our lives, not in fear, not in doom, but complete our life's journey, our mission that God sent us to do, and knowing one day we're gonna be with God forever.

[00:27:21] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: People that know me know I've been through a lot of tragedies, and I, I've struggled with that too, about how could this happen? It's not fair. And I have... I've yelled at God. I've swore at Him, and I've said, "You said you would not forsake me. Where are you?" And again, I'm screaming, "Show yourself right now.

[00:27:40] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Show yourself." And every time I am reminded, 'cause I think we try so hard- Yeah ... we're yearning for that, that people are around you, that He's, He's in them. It's not gonna be this flame that comes down and taps you on the head and says, "Yeah, I'm here." He shows up in [00:28:00] people, but you have to, we talked about earlier, you have to be open and look around.

[00:28:05] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Yeah. 

[00:28:06] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Because He- it's there. It's there. 

[00:28:07] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: That circles back to feeling it- 

[00:28:09] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: Yes. Yeah ... 

[00:28:10] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: but not touching it physically. 

[00:28:12] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: Yeah. And I, would say, too, I mean, maybe- This is an opinion base, but I think that sometimes, you had mentioned that we have a journey that, God sees for us. And I think some of those unfair questions and those why would this happen, I've seen it with my own faith and my own eyes, is that sometimes people's journey is continued by their loved ones after they've passed away, and that's the biggest impact that they- Yeah

[00:28:39] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: have on this world is- Yeah ... because of that unfair, untimely passing, but their love and God is still working to, make changes in other people's lives. And I think that's one of the ways I answer that why did this happen, this is so unfair question by, , saying [00:29:00] that their journey is still continuing just through the love and through God in our hearts and close family members.

[00:29:07] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: Some would say that, , our brains are just looking for meaning, and we're just hurting, and that, that might be true, but that meaning still matters. It, it doesn't go away just because it's, , just personable to us. Whether it's, , the divine or if it is our neural endings meeting each other, right?

[00:29:25] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: It doesn't harm anybody, though. It brings value to us, and holding our loved ones close, holding our faith close, that, that brings us a lot of comfort and value. So I want those who are listening who have not experienced one of these moments to know that it's not abnormal. Your loved one isn't not okay or not visiting you.

[00:29:47] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: It simply means that maybe you just haven't experienced anything like that, and maybe you won't. Not everybody does, so please don't dwell on that. There are definitely many ways that [00:30:00] God is showing up in your life and your loved ones may be showing up in your life. It's just not that true tale sign right in front of your eyes.

[00:30:07] Emma O'Connell, Funeral Director Assistant & Preplanning Specialist: Every journey is different, and that's okay, and we're just here to let you know that you're not alone, whether you see those signs every day or you long to see those signs every day. 

[00:30:16] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Father, are there any calls to action for those that may be listening to this- Mm-hmm ... that are saying, "Hmm, I've never been challenged in this way or to think this way"?

[00:30:26] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: What can people do to enhance their spiritual connection this way with what we're speaking of? 

[00:30:31] Father Jerry: First of all, don't do it alone. Rely on family and friends, and I hope family and friends would be there for them. I remember years ago, a young father lost his wife in an accident, and the day after the funeral, one of his best friends came and got him and says, "You're gonna be helping me putting flooring today."

[00:30:50] Father Jerry: So the day after the funeral, he was putting in flooring. And so, what the guy was doing was helping with his grief, so he wasn't gonna do it alone. [00:31:00] The other thing too is that when you go through a grief loss, is that this could be a chance where your faith can go deeper.

[00:31:07] Father Jerry: A lot of people get ticked off at God and walk away. Well, God's always there. God's always faithful. What it happens is you gotta hang in there. I've talked to, if you have friendships or, relationships, sometimes you're intensely close to one others, and sometimes, no, you're not. But it doesn't void what's going on.

[00:31:27] Father Jerry: God is always there. It's just us figuring that out. So pray, get involved in - your faith communities, and just know that God has a plan for us. God wants us to be happy. And when this life is done, and we believe that we're gonna see our loved ones again. 

[00:31:45] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Best news I've ever heard. 

[00:31:46] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: Father, did you get to check your calendar?

[00:31:48] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: We talked about putting a couple days aside for Pete in the confessional. 

[00:31:51] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: You need a couple months. 

[00:31:52] Mike O'Connell, Owner, Funeral Director, & Preplanning Specialist: No, 

[00:31:52] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: I just wanna say thank you. That's a 

[00:31:55] Father Jerry: good one. It was super- Oh ... super great to hear- Glad to be with you ... your perspective. 

[00:31:59] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: Thanks everybody for [00:32:00] joining us here on this edition of Good Grief. For our entire crew, I'm Pete Wagner.

[00:32:04] Pete Waggoner, Podcast Host: So long, everybody